Comments on: Language, lies and statistics https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/ Multilingualism, Intercultural communication, Consumerism, Globalization, Gender & Identity, Migration & Social Justice, Language & Tourism Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:44:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9 By: Weekly favorites (April 8-14) | Adventures in Freelance Translation https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-16147 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 18:44:12 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-16147 […] Amateurs playing among the pros? How Much Will It Cost? Part II Quotation marks for emphasis Language, lies and statistics How to assess interpreting Why I Joined Smartling The Art of Interpreting Interpreter of Maladies A […]

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By: Link love: language (52) | Sentence first https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-15422 Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:10:08 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-15422 […] Manufacturing moral panic over linguistic integration. […]

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By: Is speaking English a civic duty? | Language on the Move https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14692 Mon, 04 Mar 2013 05:26:48 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14692 […] One way to turn language into a legitimate-sounding boundary marker is to hype the incidence of residents who do not speak English and to malign them as linguistic freeloaders, as Deborah Cameron shows with reference to the UK. […]

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By: Khan https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14611 Sat, 02 Mar 2013 18:30:06 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14611 Thanks Professor Cameron for a very insightful post. Two things come to my mind: A) the politics of census data for languages and literacies- a very old and established scientific tool manipulated by people in power to achieve their unstated/hidden agenda. I really wonder the validity of such tools when it claims to have gauged people’s complex linguistic repertoires in multilingual contexts B) the assumption that promoting a particular language achieve social cohesion- the history of post-colonial countries tell us a very different story. In case of Karachi Pakistan where I live, while Urdu has emerged as the lingua franca, the state of social cohesion can be assessed by the fact that almost everyday fifteen to fifty citizens are killed. According to government estimated (underreporting) some 35,000 civilians have been killed over the last couple of years. My lived experiences in this poverty-ridden city of 20 million, tell me that the social cohesion largely depends on the distribution of economic resources.

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By: Deborah Cameron https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14473 Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:02:02 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14473 When I wrote this post I hadn’t seen this discussion (in the Economist, of all things) of the equally fact-free ‘why don’t these immigrants learn English’ discourse you get from US politicians and media. But now I have seen it, I thought I’d share the link: it’s at

http://www.economist.com/blogs/johnson/2013/02/immigration-and-language

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By: Ingrid Piller https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14431 Sun, 24 Feb 2013 04:20:53 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14431 In reply to Agi Bodis.

Interesting discussion! I think the whole debate has precious little to do with actual language competence (and in that sense pointing out that 99.5% of UK residents speak English is probably not actually going to convince anyone …). If it’s possible to ignore that many of those exhorted to “speak English” are actually “native speakers” of English (such as the Yorkshire-accented suicide bombers), then that’s obviously a strong indicator that this debate is not about linguistic competence but about belonging and about the political desire for a homogeneous national space.
Deborah actually has a pithy quote for the ways in which ‘language’ has come to stand for ‘race’ (or other forms of otherness) elsewhere: “Linguistic bigotry is among the last publicly expressible prejudices left to members of the Western intelligentsia.”
@Kerry & @Ingrid: In my view, the view of language as property (as in “my mother tongue”) is actually a part of the problem because it makes it so much more difficult to analytically distinguish between language competence (the red herring in this debate) and belonging (the political imagining of the nation as a homogeneous space).
@Agi: I’ve written about the political work that the English-language news reporting about Merkel’s speech was doing in the English-language contexts into which it was inserted without attention to the German national context here.

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By: Agi Bodis https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14429 Sat, 23 Feb 2013 23:05:27 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14429 In reply to Deborah Cameron.

Thank you, Deborah. Yes, politicians talking about language should certainly not be treated as a homogenous group, I agree. Re Pickles, I am surprised that with the phenomenon of world Englishes, the myth of the native-speaker is still so strong – I mean ignoring the fact that native speakers do have varying degrees of proficiency just like non-native speakers and some NNS’s may even achieve better results on a language test than certain NS’s. But I’m not too familiar with British political discourse, I have to admit, nor with Eric Pickles.

This was a very informative piece indeed: I used the “multiculturalism has failed” speeches by Angela Merkel and David Cameron in one of my classes last year to talk about (language) ideologies but this writing provides the bigger context.

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By: Deborah Cameron https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14428 Sat, 23 Feb 2013 21:08:23 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14428 Interesting point, Agi. I think politicians are variable and in some cases v. confused about what they mean. For some it means ‘speak only English, i.e. choose it over your L1 or heritage language at all times’; for others I think it really has nothing to do with language as such at all, it’s a proxy for talking about other kinds of difference (ethnic, cultural, religious) which are seen as threatening–but language is one difference you can speak of publicly without coming across as a pure bigot, because most people think learning a language or not learning it is a choice/your own responsibility (whereas being Asian or Polish is not). Obviously this is not accurate, especially if you set the bar as high as Eric ‘speak like a native’ Pickles. Totally agree with you that wanting to live in Britain is not the same as wanting to be English. I lived in the US and never wanted to be American–in fact, being glad I wasn’t American (while still wanting to live there) was more or less a daily occurrence.

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By: Agi Bodis https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14255 Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:19:49 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14255 I’m not sure, Penelope, that wanting to live in Britain necessarily means ‘wanting to be English’ – whatever ‘being English’ means.
I also think that the meaning of ”speaking English” as used by politicians (entailing a certain level of proficiency and accent) and the one used in the census (probably more focused on competency) may not even overlap.

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By: Ingrid Ferguson https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14252 Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:35:18 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14252 Reading this piece during International Mother Language Week was particularly interesting to me. Here we are celebrating the number of languages spoken around us on a daily basis, and also recognizing that English is such a common language that it brings us all together, while politicians and scare-mongers try to make language diversity an evil thing. I have worked in international schools in different parts of the world for many years, and the main reason that I stay in this arena is the multiculturalism that embraces me every day. I am encouraged to learn more languages than my own native English, and it actually embarrasses me that I do not speak more than one other language well. Especially when 5, 6 and 7 year olds around me readily and easily switch back and forth between 3 or 4 languages.

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By: Kerry Taylor-Leech https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14247 Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:29:23 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14247 Many thanks for this very thought-provoking piece. I went from reading it to listening to a program about English poetry on the radio and felt a range of mixed emotions in trying to connect the two. Thanks to globalisation and population movement on a grand scale, we see the commodification and marketing of dominant languages, causing such injustice and inequity in so many situations, as we see regularly in the case of English on this blog. Yet on the other, we see the ownership of these languages by speakers of diverse linguistic and cultural backgrounds all over the world. To illustrate, hearing multicultural, transnational English speakers with a huge variety of accents discussing English poetry of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries is an inspiration to me. It also causes me deep distress to hear my language described as a “killer” of other languages and I hate to see it being used as an instrument of oppression in the name of xenophobia, ethnocentrism, uniformity, racial vilification and nationalism. Sorry if I am going off on a tangent. You really got me thinking over my morning coffee!

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By: Deborah Cameron https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14245 Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:02:52 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14245 Penelope: my point is that this discussion of whether or not people ‘should’ speak English is a red herring: the vast majority–99.5% of all residents over the age of 3–*do* speak it, according to the government’s own statisticians.

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By: Penelope Vos https://languageonthemove.com/language-lies-and-statistics/#comment-14244 Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:55:29 +0000 http://www.languageonthemove.com/?p=13516#comment-14244 Hm,it it seems to me that the UK contains many more millions of people than ever before, from many more places, with very much more diversity and with much higher expectations of what the state owes them than ever before. And this is all as it should be. And they will be interested in maintaining their first languages, and that this is as it should be.

On the other hand, rights always come with responsibilities, and I think it might be right that if you want to be English, you should speak English. Would anyone be prepared to pay the taxes it would cost, even if possible, to provide every service the British Government provides in all 6000+ languages that immigrants could conceivably speak? Or is someone suggesting that some immigrants are more important than others?

Here is a better solution, offer all British services (including language induction classes) in English or Esperanto because Esperanto is 5-10 times less burdensome to learn than English, depending on your linguistic background. This puts less burden on the disadvantaged, will reduce expense to the community as a whole and will provide a more equitable welcome for immigrants.

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